This makes my brain hurt. (This turned into a bit of a rant)

"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher) 08/26/2020 at 23:33 • Filed to: shop teacher rants

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So, f or the last couple of years, in addition to my normal shop and drafting classes, I have been teaching Project Lead the Way classes. Now, PLTW is an organization that ostensibly has an admirable goal of exposing more kids to STEM education and giving them a certified program. They’ve done a very good job of promoting themselves, as the classes are very commonly found throughout the country.

The execution of these classes , however ... well, lets just say it leaves something to be desired. I went batty when I received training for their Design and Modeling class, because they way they teach multiview sketching is frankly wrong in so many ways. I went around and around with the instructor, a wonderful science teacher who I hold a high opinion of, but she simply didn’t have the background knowledge or experience . She was told what she was told, and that’s the way it was.

Now, a little background here. I have an A rchitecture degree. I was almost done with that degree when I decided to be a teacher, so it made sense to finish that and do my teacher training in grad school. I also took every D rawing, Drafting , Architecture, and Engineering class I could in high school and middle school . Now, t here are untold thousands of people who know more about and are better at drawing than myself, but I have a fair bit of background knowledge and experience to draw from. I know a thing or twelve.

This year (second semester) , I will be teaching a couple sections of PLTW’s Green Architecture class. I am happy about this, and lobbied hard to do so. The only thing I miss about the days when I taught high school (I teach middle school, if you didn’t know that), is I miss teaching Architecture.

Right now I’m going through their prerequisite training before their “core training” as they call it. Usually core training takes place in person in the summer , over the course of 3-5 days (10 days for high school classes, as they’re a full year in length) . Covid switched that to a remote situation, and it starts in a couple of weeks.

Anyways, I’m skimming through their materials, because I damn sure don’t need to be taught how to use an Arch itectural scale or convert feet to inches. That’s when I came upon this little gem.

Screenshot: PLTW

BASEBOARD! IT’S CALLED FUGGIN’ BASEBOARD! WHY IS IT SO HARD TO CALL IT THE THING THAT IT’S CALLED!?!?

Here’s how crap like this happens. The real point of PLTW is to be able to have people who aren’t trained to teach tech classes, be able to teach tech classes. Most of the people in my district teaching these classes are science teachers, but we also have art teachers, math teachers, etc . The dirty little secret is that back when the program was new, core training wasn’t training. They’d bring all the teachers who were tapped to teach these courses together, and they’d spend a week or two together writing curriculum.

That’s why they call it “floor board trim ” in this question. The person/people who wrote this didn’t know their ass from a hammer.

Now, I will fix any errors before they make it to the kids. Just like I taught the Design and Modeling students the right way to multiview s ketch, instead of the cockamamie method they try to push . The other teachers in my district have been very receptive to learning how to do it the right way as well. I feel good about the what my district is delivering at least.

InFierority Complex > shop-teacher 08/26/2020 at 23:38

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If you write in baseboard they crumple up the test and give you a doctorate.

shop-teacher > InFierority Complex 08/26/2020 at 23:41

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Ha!  I like the sound of Dr. Shop-Teacher.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > shop-teacher 08/26/2020 at 23:42

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I’m curious on this multiview sketch

Svend > shop-teacher 08/26/2020 at 23:44

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“Floor board trim”

I feel you man, it’s skirting board for goodness sakes.

Lol.

Because that's what we call it in the U.K. 

shop-teacher > Svend 08/26/2020 at 23:46

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I’d accept that :)

shop-teacher > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/26/2020 at 23:47

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I may do a separate rant on that another time.  

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > shop-teacher 08/26/2020 at 23:55

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So how big is the closet?

Whaddya mean you’re not going to do the closet too?! C heap bastards.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > shop-teacher 08/26/2020 at 23:56

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The answer is take your initial estimate, and add a few extra feet. You know darn well someone is going to mess up a miter somewhere along the way.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:00

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Floor board trim? Like a nice walnut inlay?

Oh.. Baseboard.

If they want it done right we’re going to need to know the wall thickness as well, unless there’s a door frame going in that hole.

Just be glad they’re willing to listen to reason and experience instead of insisting you teach it as written.

... Fast forward to the standardized test...

Hey, we never learned about floor board trim. ...and h ow could it be moulding already , we just b uilt it?!

shop-teacher > BaconSandwich is tasty. 08/27/2020 at 00:08

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Always buy an extra piece or two. ALWAYS!

shop-teacher > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 08/27/2020 at 00:09

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Thankfully there is no standardized test on this. I can freely teach them the correct way, and ignore their BS.

shop-teacher > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 08/27/2020 at 00:10

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Nah man, closest are for the olds. It's all about designer milk crates now.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:12

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If you don’t use it now, you’ll end up using it, like, 20 years later. Guaranteed.*

* Not really, but there's still a good chance.

shop-teacher > BaconSandwich is tasty. 08/27/2020 at 00:16

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Most definitely.

Or, you can return it. But who actually does that?

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:17

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Well, that tracks, since I’m an old from 1970.

Pfffft, designer milk crates. Back in my day, w e acquired our milk crates by nefarious & illicit means! ( Or through attrition, mostly.)

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:19

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I didn’t have to buy any floor board trim baseboard for my bathroom remodel because the builder  had a bunch in his truck that was close enough to what came out in the demo.

lone_liberal > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:20

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How can you know how to order carpet if you don't know how wide the rolls are?

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:21

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How much of each do you need?

I don’t know, but be sure to bill the homeowner for twice as much. They’ll never know.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:21

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Hey man I just want to pop in and say I appreciate what you’re doing! I can’t say my CAD teacher put quite as much effort into it as you do, but he did make sure those of us who took it seriously were challenged and had the room to explore/create/grow. I am forever appreciative of what I learned in that class because I was able to use it to eek out a decent existence in life, and whether you find out about it later or not, I guarantee you’re having a similar impact on your students and their futures, so keep it up!

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > BaconSandwich is tasty. 08/27/2020 at 00:21

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someone is going to mess up a miter

No carpenter with a bit of sense is going to wear a fancy hat like that, of course it’s gonna get messed up!

Or: See, that right there’s yer problem. You’re using the goddamn metric system, instead of good ol’ Freedumb Units.

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:22

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Seeing as you like drawing and such, perhaps you’d like this bit I posted this morning. I didn’t see your name in the discussion, so maybe you missed it.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/drawing-the-240-1844853633

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:27

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But is the math the same for Ceiling Trim™? 

shop-teacher > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 08/27/2020 at 00:30

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Nope, this room is open to the sky.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 08/27/2020 at 00:30

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Nice!

shop-teacher > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 08/27/2020 at 00:31

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Gadamb communists and their metrics!

shop-teacher > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 08/27/2020 at 00:32

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I actually have a ton of milk crates, because one of my coworker's father works at the milk crate factory. He brings all the ones that aren't quite up to snuff to school for us.

shop-teacher > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/27/2020 at 00:33

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Thanks! I really do appreciate that.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 08/27/2020 at 00:34

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My dad taught me to always make sure the estimate is a very specific number. If it's a round number, they'll think you're screwing them.

shop-teacher > lone_liberal 08/27/2020 at 00:35

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Doesn't matter, because you will inevitably order too little, and have to wait for a new roll on backorder.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:40

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Legally not a bedroom then

shop-teacher > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/27/2020 at 00:42

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Lets not let the law get in the way here ;)

AdverseMartyr > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 00:50

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Wait, shouldn’t there be quarter-round as well? How’s it going to look finished with just baseboard? Perhaps it’s quarter-round they wanted the measurement for, but they’ll need the baseboard measurement first.

AdverseMartyr > BaconSandwich is tasty. 08/27/2020 at 00:52

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It’s not that I messed up. You didn’t tell me it was an inside corner, and you set the saw up for an outside. How was I supposed to know.

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 01:04

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I’ve got a ton, too. Mostly from now-defunct dairy cooperatives. At least o ne of them was acquired with the purchase of a late ‘70s motorcycle, bolted to the rear rack.

They’re the perfect size for so many things, yet I’ve never seen a store-bought “ storage crate” with nearly the same beefiness, nor even quite the same dimensions. 

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Svend 08/27/2020 at 02:15

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Here too. Base board is the slatted siding that goes on the outside of the house between floor and ground level to allow the under floor space to ventilate . (Which I’m sure isn’ t a thing in the UK).

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 02:29

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Well regardless of the terminology, the answer is “at least 9’ more than the actual length” since provided you’re smart enough not to do the 14’ length last, if you screw up a mitre on that you can cut it down to 10’, but *when* you screw up one of the ten footers, you’re only going to salv age a foot. Or put a join in, but that’s gumby. 

Sovande > lone_liberal 08/27/2020 at 06:23

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Carpet comes 12' wide as the standard. Certain manufacturers make it 13'2", however. The square yardage of material is the same no matter the width of the material. When you do a carpet estimate you take into consideration where to seam the carpet too. 

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 06:37

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You know... the last time I fitted floorboard trim/baseboard/skirting board (and the latter is the only true answer)...I used 75 x 19 mm hardwood (merbau) decking instead.

shop-teacher > AdverseMartyr 08/27/2020 at 07:14

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No, no, not quarter round. That's amateur hour. Base shoe is what you want. Base shoe is narrower than it is tall. You typically don't use it when you're carpeting the room though. The function of base shoe is to cover the expansion gap between hardwood and the baseboard. It also conforms to and covers up any vertical variances between the bottom of the baseboard and any hard surface floor.

shop-teacher > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 08/27/2020 at 07:17

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I have a shelf in my garage that has a long row of milk crates for various things. They're so good.

shop-teacher > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 08/27/2020 at 07:18

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Exactly.

shop-teacher > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 08/27/2020 at 07:18

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Nice!

Svend > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 08/27/2020 at 07:25

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Yes, skirting board makes so much more sense, as it skirts around the room.

Baseboard sounds like it goes under something (though under the carpet, etc... we call underlay) like floorboards or like an insulation panel behind a wall. 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 07:40

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I know what baseboard is, but I have absolutely no skills with building anything ever.......this paragraph hurt my head :P

....I’m just going to go back to the skills I DO have and finish reassembling this laptop.... :(

Wallaby > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 08:40

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If my brother in construction has taught me any thing, you need to order 75' of baseboard for that room because there’s a lot of scrap in that process. I was helping him out one week when I was furloughed and had to do this exact kind of measurement. Told him something like 130' and he just went “200, got it.”

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 09:15

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We’re having a backyard remodel, and I’ve been frustrated by the bids that don’t break out the supplies and the labor. I’d like to know where I can save money, since I can’t bargain on the labor. 

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 09:20

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The person/people who wrote this didn’t know their ass from a hammer.

This is far too common in many disciplines where it really shouldn’t be. I used to be a test engineer and it was so easy to tell which designs where made by engineers who had never turned a wrench in their life.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 08/27/2020 at 09:23

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Yeah, I know what you mean.

shop-teacher > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 08/27/2020 at 09:23

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Yeah, no doubt about it.

shop-teacher > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/27/2020 at 09:25

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Buck up!  You HAVE skills.  They’re just different skills.  I know jack-squat about computers.

shop-teacher > Wallaby 08/27/2020 at 09:26

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The extra couple of pieces is way cheaper than the time you lose if you run out.

ttyymmnn > Svend 08/27/2020 at 09:32

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England and America are two countries separated by the same language.

TheRealBicycleBuck > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 09:34

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I’ve learned over the years that teaching is a skill and scientific subjects require a talented teacher with a specific, detailed skill set. People who think they can throw together a curriculum should be forced to learn something scientific from someone who just threw together a curriculum. They’ll learn that details are very important. Another good test of their curriculum is to have them try to teach it to someone who is constantly asking “why,” for more detail, or for a reference. Just forcing them to provide references will reveal a lot of their mistakes.

You’re doing good work, sir. Keep it up.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 10:01

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What made you switch your career path from architect to teacher?

I had architecture in mind in high school (after drafting and art classes), but “wimped out” and chose civil engineering. After 3 years of that, I finally admitted to myself I was on the wrong path. Changed schools and ended up with a BFA in graphic design. Eventually went back for a GIS certificate and my day job is mapping & software support for a small group of geologists & engineers (with some freelance design on the side). Been quite a winding road, but finally found my way.

Future next gen S2000 owner > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 08/27/2020 at 10:01

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I’m convinced the best engineers spend time in the field and designing. You need to both. Plus it makes you better when you have a construction crew staring at you because your design is holding up their schedule and they aren’t happy.

shop-teacher > TheRealBicycleBuck 08/27/2020 at 10:51

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That is very well said!

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

shop-teacher > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/27/2020 at 11:04

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Honestly, it was just learning that there was opportunity in the teaching field.

I starting working for my dad’s construction company during every school break from about age 13. I liked the industry, but didn’t want to be pounding nails in the winter for the rest of my life. I had a fantastic shop/drafting/architecture teacher in high school, and from there I decided to get an archi tecture degree. My long term goal was to turn my dad’s company into a design/build firm.

I ran into my high school teacher over winter break during my junior y ear of architecture school, and we had a nice long chat. It was in that conversation where I learned that there was a shortage of tech teachers. I had always thought that his job would be one I would enjoy. I knew I liked teaching, as I had already taught some people how to use AutoCAD. I hadn’t considered it as a career before, because I was under the mistaken impression that there weren’t many jobs out there for it. My schools were all small enough to only have one tech teacher, so it seemed like a job you’d have to get lucky to find. When I found out that the opposite was the case, I decided to switch gears right on the spot.

I still enjoyed what I was doing in school, and I only had three semesters left, so I went ahead and finished the architecture degree, and jumped straight into grad school for Technology Education.

I think I would have enjoyed being a designer and contractor. It’s an interesting and engaging industry, and I’m certain I would have built some good homes. I also know myself well enough to know that I was never going to break any aesthetic ground. I was never going to be a starchitect. I knew people who had that potential, and that just wasn’t inside me.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 11:18

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Nice. Crazy how one encounter can completely change a life’s arc (my next-door neighbor was a geologist, we got to know each other, and he suggested I come interview for a job at his company - no way I would’ve ended up in this industry otherwise).

I think I could really enjoy the job you have. Maybe I’ll put it on my short list for my second career (as good as my job is, it’s hard to see myself doing what I’m doing for another decade).

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 11:47

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I should really try and learn some home skills in architecture and construction at some point... I’ve always thought you can save SO much money if you know how to do work on your own around the house...

shop-teacher > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/27/2020 at 11:52

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Yep, it is wild how quickly your life can turn on a dime :)

If you decide to pursue it, let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. I’m not planning on leaving Oppo anytime soon.

shop-teacher > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/27/2020 at 11:53

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Yes, you definitely can.  I could not afford to pay people to do what I have done to my house.  No chance.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 12:27

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Thanks.

NYankee1927 > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 12:36

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I’m here for the multivew sketch rant!

Mrs. NYankee1927 also has an architecture degree and saw the worst shit on tiktok. Someone had done someone else a favor by designing an interior room with shelving to help a DIY person come out with something good. In the comments section, “W hat iphone app did you use that gave you such good use of space? ” Its f ucking Revit. You learn how to design, then use your favorite CAD program. Its not easy to become proficient and there isn’t just an app for this stuff.

shop-teacher > NYankee1927 08/27/2020 at 13:52

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Yeah, there is no app that can’t help you design anything. They’re all just some sort of drawing tool.

I may do the multiview rant another time :)

NYankee1927 > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 16:12

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Yea, I just find it funny how trivialized good design has become. No one appreciates it, yet they hate when it goes poorly.

shop-teacher > NYankee1927 08/27/2020 at 16:32

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The problem is good design is so hard to define. Plus many people have their taste in their butt.

NYankee1927 > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 17:31

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Good design is hard to define. But thanks to teachers like you, the next great designer will be able to get it out of their head and into a medium where it can be built.

It is funny because as an engineer, I think I have good design. But when I bring it over to the design department and we talk through it, what they translate it into is absolutely beautiful. It is a good check and reminder I don’t know shit about making something look nice vs. purely functional.

shop-teacher > NYankee1927 08/27/2020 at 18:29

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I bet they appreciate having an engineer who can give them something to not out to lunch to start with, but they are most definitely different skill-sets.

And thanks :)

AdverseMartyr > shop-teacher 08/27/2020 at 19:14

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I’m just going to pretend I never saw you suggesting to carpet a room, when there is lovely wood available.

Just replace metal with carpet. You get the idea.

And Accent Rugs! They help the wood look better.

AdverseMartyr > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/27/2020 at 19:17

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You can end up in the Abyss of just one step left on a project though. The reasons vary - Ran out of free time for the project, Needed the space for storing something, All the stores in the area were out of the glue you needed/the correct color was discontinued/screws are all too long and will destroy the finish./etc.

shop-teacher > AdverseMartyr 08/27/2020 at 20:53

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I didn’t write the stupid question!

AdverseMartyr > shop-teacher 08/28/2020 at 03:54

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I know you didn’t. I’m just having some fun on the interwebz.

And in all sincerity thank you for introducing me to a new term. I hadn’t heard of Base shoe before. My excuse is that I’ve only worked on a few floors and never as an actual job. But I do enjoy faking knowledge about various fields, and you’ve given me a new weapon in my arse nal.

shop-teacher > AdverseMartyr 08/28/2020 at 07:16

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Glad to help! :)